Archive for the 'crash' Category

Malaysia Airlines MH370 Hijacked – Then Crashed or Shot Down?

It has been a week. A full week since the now famous Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur, has disappeared. It disappeared from radars, from air traffic control, from the map – and from the Asian skies as well…

This past (very long) week will be the food for thought and the basis for media speculation for months, if not years to come. At the current moment, after one week of contradicting information having been published, and leaked by multiple nations’ authorities and unnamed “resources familiar with the matter”, we barely know anything about what actually may have happened. We don’t know facts, other than that the plane’s transponder stopped working above the South China Sea – about one hour into the flight, and that it has never arrived to Beijing.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER that operated flight MH370.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER that operated flight MH370 (registration 9M-MRO)

 

The public news that were published and circulated state that the plane has not crashed around the area where it was last seen on radars, nor has it landed anywhere in the vicinity. Authorities have searched to the North, to the East, then with a sudden twist to the West last week – without proper reasoning back then. HOWEVER, the picture that is being drawn by the known – and at least twice confirmed – “facts” leads us to the conclusion that the plane must have been hijacked. Why?

The transponder was turned off. It did not simply stop working, it was turned off – otherwise it would have sent signals during a crash. And it was turned off at the right time. The plane just left Malaysian air space, saying the last words “Good night!” – so the Malaysian air traffic control would not be looking for it for a while. The plane has not yet checked in with the Vietnamese air traffic controllers – so they would not be looking for it for a while, either – giving a free, uncontrolled hour or so worth of head-start flying time for the hijacked plane, before any civil authorities would start looking for it. The transponder being off simply takes it off the civilian radars as well. By the time military radars pick it up and start checking it – in the middle of a Friday night with probably only a handful of workers on duty – the plane could have flown on its own for probably like 2 hours or so.

The plane changed direction. After the transponder was turned off, the plane changed direction and instead of continuing North-East, it turned back West and flew past the Malaysian peninsula – following navigational points, which indicates that the person in control in the cockpit knew where they were flying, and knew exactly where they wanted to get. This is information now (7 days later) confirmed by the Malaysian Prime Minister, based on Malaysian military data. (This was once said back on the second or third day of the search, but was then denied the same day…) Even though they turned off the so called ACARS reporting system that sends data from the engines to Boeing and Rolls-Royce (the manufacturer of the turbines), this system continued to ping satellites – practically giving a life-signal, but no any additional data. But it says that the engines were running for at least 4 hours more, but some reports say that up to 7 hours more after the reporting was turned off…

Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER - on airliners.net by Konstantin von Wedelstaedt

The plane changed altitude. Drastically. Multiple times. This may sound like a small detail, but to me it indicates that the person in control in the cockpit knew what they were doing. Flying up to 45.000 feet (beyond the 777’s official maximum altitude) may have knocked out the passengers on board so that they were unconscious for at least a little time. (The pilot(s) in control may have taken the oxygen masks before going up so high.) Maybe then someone onboard took away their mobile phones and any other communication devices they could find in the pockets and elsewhere. Then the plane went much lower – to avoid some of the civil radars and continue it’s new flying course.

Then what happened? This is of course the biggest question. We need to look at the possible motivation/goal behind the hijacking to seek answers for this.

  • Pilot suicide – they would have taken the plane down after they took control, crashing into the South China Sea, leaving debris. No debris found, therefore can be ruled out.
  • Seeking global attention for a (political) cause – “typical” terrorist approach, but they would have contacted the government and global media with their reasons behind the hijacking. No media reported anything similar, therefore can be ruled out.
  • Seeking political asylum – hijack the plane, and land in a third, free country. It would only make sense for those with a fake passport on board – but as they had a working fake passport (they could get through security and onboard), it would make little sense to complicate matters this much. Plus, the country where they would have landed, would have already publicized the event and we would know about it. Ruled out.
  • Stealing the plane and selling it – given the so many identifiers and easy recognition of the plane itself, this is very unlikely that another airline would actually buy it…  Putting it on eBay would not be a solution, either. Can be ruled out in my opinion.
  • Stealing the plane for technological advances – this would only be useful for a handful of countries, like North Korea, Iran, Pakistan and some others in the region. Stealing a maintenance handbook could almost be as useful, unless you need some special material from onboard. Seems unlikely in my opinion, especially as North Korea is in the other direction (would have made more sense to hijack the plane much later in the flight in order to reduce risks), and Iran is simply too far away.
  • Seeking ransom for the plane and the passengers – this could be a valid motivation – but it requires the plane to be landed. Otherwise there is no plane and passengers they you can ask the money for. We would probably know about it by now – but could be that the negotiating government is keeping this information from the media.
  • Gaining control over someone onboard, or something in the cargo hold – this could be a valid motivation – but it also requires the plane to be landed. Otherwise there is no person or no cargo that you can unload the use later on. We will probably never learn if there was any classified cargo on board, such as special weapons, weapon materials or anything similar. The affected governments would never release such information publicly.

So the plane could have landed somewhere. We would probably know about it by now, there would be some witness who would tell the American or any other media for a little money if they had seen such a big plane – even simply flying low, not to mention landing on a remote airstrip. I believe we can rule this out, unless there is a big conspiracy behind this missing flight. (Like it landed on a small island airport, they stripped all communication devices, let the crew and passengers out, and flew it somewhere else under a different flight number and with a new transponder on board. Or they took it apart, or buried it in the ground, or put it in a hangar – but it’s a big plane. So the number of such big hangars, and runways able to support such a plane on such a small island is really only a handful.)

The plane could have crashed on its own. Running out of fuel would be a dumb mistake from someone who could turn off the transponder, though… Crashing after such a long flight on purpose would be a waste of time and lots of risk for a suicide crash. It could have crashed – in case the passengers had a “riot” on board against the hijackers and the onboard fight resulted in someone taking over the cockpit who had no idea how to fly the plane. The cockpit is complex enough, that in such a case, an amateur would not be able to turn on the radio, the transponder and seek help from the ground – let alone getting instructions on how to land the aircraft somewhere. In such a case, they may have run out of fuel actually.

And finally, The plane could have been shut down by military. Just look at the last two possible motivational ideas above. Either case, the government (sorry, but given it was a Malaysian aircraft, we must assume the Malaysian government here) may have shot down the airliner to reduce further risk and danger. They may have actually negotiated with the hijackers in the first hours or so, but getting no results and seeing the plane flying out of Malaysian Air Space, they went ahead and shot it down. If there was some precious, illegal cargo on board, it’s better to have it rest somewhere at the bottom of the Indian Ocean than having it land at a terrorist base… Now this scenario could be the reason behind why the Malaysian authorities were giving so contradicting information for days. They simply had no communication plan for such a situation. Or they had one, but the fact that most of the passengers on board (154 out of the 239 including crew) were Chinese, simply does not allow it to be confirmed. As it would lead to a very tricky political situation with the biggest (super)power in the region: China. And this is not something Malaysia (or any other country in the area for that matter) wants. (Alternatively, the military may not even have noticed the whole thing – as per the BBC.)

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK by leaving a comment for this article or voting here below.

So the facts what we knew are pointing to a hijacking scenario, with one of the more tragical ends. The plane is still missing. The plane can not be in the air anymore, so it must have either landed, or crashed, or shot down.

We may learn the faith of MH 370, or we may never get to know what really happened. It will soon transfer to a legal procedure between Malaysia Airlines and the aircraft insurer, the airline and the passengers’ relatives, the airline and the cargo owners, and maybe the airline and some media outlets about the contradicting information published during this last week.

We’ll keep an eye on the future news about this mysterious flight and suggest that you do as well.

by balint01

Sukhoi SuperJet 100 Missing in Indonesia

A Russian built Sukhoi Superjet 100 passenger plane with at least 44 people aboard has gone missing on a demonstration flight in Indonesia, on 9th May, 2012 – and confirmed the next morning to have crashed into the side of the Mount Salak volcano.

The plane took off from east Jakarta’s Halim Perdanakusuma airport shortly before 14:00 local time (07:00 GMT) and was scheduled to fly an approx. 30 min circle from Jakarta as the second of two demonstration flights today, with 8 Russian and 36 other nationalities (two Italians, one American, one French, all the rest were Indonesian) on board. Those people are believed to be mostly airline employees (the potential buyers– representatives from Indonesia’s Batavia, Pelita, Air Aviastar, and Sriwijaya Air) invited by Sukhoi to this demo flight in the hope of buying the airplane which Sukhoi is trying to sell on the global market. Indonesia has been a potential breakout selling location due to the country’s aging fleet and growing demand for air travel. 8 SuperJets have been in operation with Aeroflot and Armenian Armavia for more than a year now with only minor incidents.

At 14:12 (21 minutes into the flight) it requested approval for descending from 10.000 ft to 6.000 ft from air traffic control. While starting the descent, the plane disappeared from radar screens near Bogor, a city in West Java province, near Mount Salak (7,200ft, 2,200m), a volcano south of Jakarta – a blogger with the Sukhoi delegation said. Juanda, a villager who lives near the mountain, told local TV: “I saw a big plane passing just over my house.” “It was veering a bit to one side, the engine roaring. It seemed to be heading toward Salak, but I didn’t hear an explosion or anything.” BBC reports that Jocean Bowler, an American running an organic farm on the slopes of the mountain, which is a popular tourist destination, said: “Salak’s a big mountain, I didn’t hear anything.

Emergency services confirmed a Sukhoi plane was missing and two helicopters were dispatched to find the jet. The plane is believed to have had about four hours’ fuel aboard, the BBC’s Karishma Vaswani reports from Jakarta, but as darkness fell, the helicopter search was called off due to dusk and unpredictable weather, but rescuers continued looking for the plane on the ground, he said….

The latest reports suggest the mobile phones of at least two passengers are working, though nobody has picked up. “A call waiting tone can be heard, but nobody is answering,” the director of Angkasa Aviation magazine says, as cited by Detik.com. Two employees of Angkasa, Didi Yusuf and Dodi Aviantara, were reportedly onboard the missing plane. The aircraft is believed to be one of two company prototypes being used for sales and marketing promotion tours. The missing aircraft’s registration number is SN95004.

UPDATE: Thursday morning teams searching for the plane spotted debris from the Sukhoi Superjet 100 at a height of about 5,800 feet (1,800 meters) on the side of Mount Salak, around 1.5km (one mile) from the spot where the plane last made radio contact, and the Sukhoi logo had been identified amid the wreckage – said Daryatmo, head of the National Search and Rescue Agency. There was no sign of any passengers but rescuers were preparing to drop a team from a helicopter onto the ridge to search for survivors, a military official said. No bodies have been found at the scene, but human remains found will be taken to hospitals for DNA tests. Experts say that survival chances are very low given that the crash seem to have happened on the nearly vertical side of a very steep mountain cliff.

Russia’s Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev established a special commission to investigate the accident.

The Superjet, a mid-range airliner that can carry up to 100 people, is military plane-maker Sukhoi’s first commercial aviation plane. This particular Sukhoi Superjet 100 airplane arrived in Jakarta as part of a demonstration tour of six Asian countries. It had been to Myanmar, Pakistan and Kazakhstan, and was due to visit Laos and Vietnam after Indonesia, Russian RIA Novosti said.

The first completely new Russian Passenger Aircraft since the Cold War was created by a joint venture, majority-owned by Sukhoi, with Italy’s Finmeccanica and a number of other foreign and Russian firms also involved. 170 of the type has been ordered by airlines so far, with 8 delivered to Aeroflot and Armavia. It gained European Aviation Safety Agency certification in early February and Sukhoi was aiming to sell 42 such planes in Indonesia.

by balint01

Afriqiyah Airways Crash In Tripoli, Lybia

An Afriqiyah Airways Airbus A330 has crashed at the Tripoli International Airport while trying to land. There were 104 people on board, the lives of all but one are believed to have been lost.

The Afriqiyah Airways flight 771 arriving from Johannesburg, South Africa, after a 9 hour flight, carrying 93 passengers and 11 crew members was about to land at Tripoli at 10 minutes past 6am this morning. The plane was scheduled to continue its journey to London-Gatwick as flight 8U 912, thus a few British citizens were also aboard with other nationalities including South Africans and Europeans bound for other connecting flights. As confirmed by the Dutch authorities, there were 62 Dutch citizens on this flight! All the crew were from Lybia. Nicky Knapp, a representative of the Airports Company South Africa, provided the breakdown in the destinations of the passengers aboard: seven to London, 32 to Brussels, 42 to Dusseldorf, one to Paris, and 11 to Libya. She was speaking on behalf of Afriqiyah Airways.

First reports suggest the plane has exploded in the air before touching down (“It exploded on landing and totally disintegrated,” a Libyan security official told AFP), but these are not yet confirmed. Some burnt airplane parts are also lying on the ground, together with intact airline seats, which would indicate that we may have some survivors. Ambulances are continuously arriving at the scene. Early reports indicate there is one survivor, an 8 year old Dutch child! He is currently undergoing surgery at a local hospital with some bone injuries.

By the afternoon, 96 bodies have also been recovered from the wreckage… Some of the TV footage show a destroyed car wreckage being moved by rescue workers as well – it is unknown at this stage if there were any casualties on the ground as well.

Officials also recovered the plane’s flight data recorder, which investigators use to piece together a flight’s last minutes.

The plane was one of three Airbus A330-200’s operated by Afriqiyah Airways. Carrying the registration number 5A-ONG (pictured here above), it was handed over to Afriqiyah just 8 months ago, thus was a new a plane. The planes in the fleet carry the logo 9.9.99 – the date when the African Union was formed, and this plane was handed over to the airline exactly ten years later, on 9.9.09. Ended her short life after accumulating about 1,600 flight hours in some 420 flights in a very tragic way.

by balint01

American Airlines Jet Overruns Runway At Jamaica Airport After Landing

American Airlines flight AA 331 on December 22, originating out of Washington Ronald Reagan International Airport, stopping in Miami and then heading into Kingston, Jamaica overran the runway at Norman Manley International Airport and broke apart after landing in a heavy rainstorm.


The Boeing 737-800 carrying 148, mostly Jamaican passengers going home for Christmas and 6 crew members reportedly landed on the runway at 22:22 local time after a 90 minute flight from Miami. Then it couldn’t stop and overshot the runway, skidding across the airport’s fences and a rainwater ditch, almost breaking into two parts and after crossing a road, it came to a rest on a beach. The aircraft’s nose only came to a full stop about 3 m’s (10 feet) away from the Caribbean Sea. As you can see on the map below, the plane must have skidded off the runway at the South-Eastern end.

44 people have been hospitalized, mostly with bruises, broken bones and back pains, 42 of whom have been released immediately after the treatments. The first reports claim no deaths nor life threatening injuries. Most witnesses claimed many passengers sustained injuries from hand luggage falling from the overhead compartments – on the head, neck and shoulders. This indicates that the plane must have touched down very hard and may have even bounced on the runway a few times. The plane’s fuselage was cracked at two locations (before and after the wing), both engines broke off and the left landing gear collapsed from the impact. It is not yet known whether the landing gear collapsed during landing, or afterwards when the plane actually overran the runway.

Passengers from the plane have said the flight was very turbulent all the way, with the crew trying to serve drinks three times and finally giving up. The captain also warned before landing that more turbulence is ahead… The crew have directed emergency procedures very effectively and evacuated all passengers onto the beach. Inside the plane passengers claim they smelled smoke and jet fuel, while rain was pouring through the roof where the fuselage was broken.

The plane was delivered to American Airlines in 2001, and had the registration number N977AN. Interestingly, the areas where the plane cracked before and after the wing are almost the same as the Turkish Airlines Boeing 737-800 that crash-landed at Amsterdam airport in February this year.

by balint01

168 Feared Dead In Caspian Air Crash

Today at 11.33 am a Tupolev belonging to Iran-based Caspian Air crashed near Qazvin, Iran about 140 kms from the capital Tehran, with 168 passengers and crew on board. The plane was heading to the Armenian capital of Yerevan and took off from Tehran only 16 minutes before the crash.

All aboard flight number 7908 were killed according to the first news coming from local TV stations.

A Caspian Airlines TU154 - by Taha Ashoori on Airliners.net

It took a long time before anything has appeared on the official website of the airline, but the international website still shows no information about the crash. When we called the local representative of the carrier earlier today, we were the first to tell him about the accident.

The Tupolev TU-154M plane involved in the accident was built in 1987 and was originally delivered to Ariana Afghan Airlines. It is one of the four of the type that is operated by Caspian Airlines – which is a Russian-Iranian joint venture established in 1993. They have also been using a fifth one of the same type that was operated for them, by Aerotur Air. Reports suggest that the lost plane was registered as EP-CPG (shown on the image above). The local television channels showed a huge crater and debris spread around in in a wide area. According to a representative of Caspian Air there were mainly Iranian citizens onboard (29 of them were members of Iran’s some 100,000 ethnic Armenian community – many of whom frequently use the flights between Tehran and Yerevan to visit relatives in Armenia), with 40 Armenians  (6 of them were Armenian citizens, the rest are Iranian citizens as mentioned) and two Georgian citizens also on the plane.  Besides the 156 passengers there were 12 crew members working on the flight. It is unclear whether other nations were also involved in the crash, but a boarding card belonging to a Japanese citizen was found at the crash site, Iranian reports said. Among those on board were eight members of Iran’s national youth judo team, along with two trainers and a delegation chief, who were scheduled to train with the Armenian judo team before attending competitions in Budapest, Hungary on Aug. 6, Iranian state TV said. 

There are no reports about potential death, or injury of anyone on the ground.

Caspian Airlines Crash Site - by Newsday.com

First eyewitness reports suggest that the plane’s tail was on fire and had circled in the air (probably trying to find an area available for emergency landing) before crashing in the ground, nose down.  “Then, I saw the plane crashing nose-down. It hit the ground causing a big explosion. The impact shook the ground like an earthquake. Then, plane pieces were scattered all over the agricultural fields,” Ali Akbar Hashemi, a 23-year-old who was laying gas pipes in a nearby home, told the Associated Press by phone. This confirms the reports on the Aviation Herald website claiming that the pilot had reported a fire in the left engine mid-air, before quickly losing altitude and deviating to the left of the assigned flight path. This information has not been confirmed by any authorities yet. Based on the above mentioned footage of the area, the plane has practically been desintegrated into small pieces by the impact of the crash, and its broken parts have spread around in an area bigger than 200 square meters. The crater is about 10 meters in depth.

I saw a finger of a passenger on the ground. There is no sign of the airplane, just small pieces of metal,” said a witness. “I do not see even a complete leg or arm.” The Tupolev plane has been totally destroyed and the corpses, unfortunately, have been totally burned and destroyed,” Qazvin police commander Massoud Jafarinasab told semi-official Fars News Agency.

Weeping relatives and friends gathered at Yerevan Airport where a notice on a wall listed people who were on board. Doctors treated relatives for shock and heart problems. (You can find the full list of the flight crew and the passengers in a comment added to this article below.)

The plane’s flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder have been found at the crash site, state television reported late Wednesday, so an explanation of the crash is likely to be found.

By Szafi and balint01

Air France Flight AF447 Missing

It has been confirmed by Air France that their flight AF 447, linking Rio de Janeiro with Paris (Charles de Gaulle) had disappeared earlier today from the Brazilian radars and has never contacted Senegalese air traffic control.

The Airbus A330 should have landed in Paris at 11:10 local time but it has dissappeared earlier this morning. The plane – with 216 passengers (126 men, 82 women, 7 children and a baby) and 12 crew members onboard – took off from Rio de Janeiro Sunday evening at 7pm local time, heading towards Europe on a route that would lead northwards above Brazil, then crossing the Atlantic towards Senegal and flying through Spanish air-space before arriving to the French capital. However, contact with the aircraft was lost about 3 and a half hours into the flight (~1:33 GMT), when the plane was cruising at 35.000 feet at a speed of 840 km/h, approximately 300 kms from the Brazilian shore (565 kms north-east of the Brazilian city of Natal), above the Atlantic Ocean – already outside of Brazilian radar-space. It had last contacted air traffic control in Recife, Brazil. Brazilian Air Force started the search early Monday morning around the Northeastern Brazilian island of Fernando de Noronha (365 kms from the South-American coast). They were later joined by a French military plane flying out of Senegal to help with the search. Brazilian officials cautioned that the search area could be three times the size of Europe. See map on CNN.com and the map on BBC.co.uk.

AirFrance_AirbusA330_F-GZCP-byPhilippeJeandy

There were several possible scenarios why contact was lost, it could have been a transponder problem, a hijack or a crash. Transport analyst Kieran Daly told CNN that the lack of communication with the aircraft “does suggest it was something serious and catastrophic.” He said the aircraft involved was one delivered to Air France in April 2005. Given the fact that that Airbus A330 is one of the safest airplane types currently flying around the Globe – not having a regular fatal accident since its first commercial flight in 1998 -, theoretically it could have done a water landing – similar to the US Airways flight that ditched in the Hudson river earlier this year – but the fact that all radio contact had been lost does not sound too positive at this stage. Also in the middle of a storm at the open ocean it is a much harder task than the Hudson river in quite weather.

The plane was hit by heavy turbulance in stormy weather and reported electrical problems before it lost contact, Air France said Monday. The automatic system of the Airbus A330-200 began a four-minute exchange of messages to the company’s maintenance computers, indicating that “several pieces of aircraft equipment were at fault or had broken down,” at 02:14 GMT (four hours after leaving Rio de Janeiro) as it hit strong turbulence early in its 11-hour flight from Rio de Janeiro to Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris, Air France CEO Pierre-Henri Gourgeon told a news conference. “This succession of messages signals a totally unforeseeable, great difficulty,” he said. “Something quite new within the plane.” During that time, there was no contact with the crew, Gourgeon said, adding that “It was probable that it was a little bit after those messages that the impact of the plane took place in the Atlantic,” he added. He also said that flight AF 447 was probably closer to Brazil than to Africa when it crashed. Speculations are now pointing towards a possible lightning strike as the cause of the electrical malfunction – but that alone should not have brought down a modern airliner such as the Airbus A330. The jet had also sent a warning that it had lost pressure, the Brazilian air force said. The missing jet, registered as F-GZCP last had a maintenance check on April 16 and has been flying in service since April 18, 2005 – with 18870 recorded flight hours and was powered by General Electric CF6-80E engines. According to Reuters, two Lufthansa planes have flown over the same area shortly before and shortly after the Air France flight – without any incidents. Both German pilots reported the bad, stormy weather.

The chances of finding any survivors were “very low,” French President Nicolas Sarkozy admitted Monday. Air France identified the nationalities of the victims (based on the information received from the Brazilian Authorities) as two Americans, an Argentinean, an Austrian, a Belgian, 58 Brazilians, five British, a Canadian, nine Chinese, a Croatian, a Dane, a Dutch, an Estonian, a Filipino, 61 French, a Gambian, 26 Germans, four Hungarians, three Irish, one Icelandic, nine Italians, five Lebanese, two Moroccans, three Norwegians, two Polish, one Romanian, one Russian, three Slovakian, one South African, two Spanish, one Swedish, six Swiss and one Turk. This means 32 countries are involved in the tragedy. The four Hungarians are said to be 2 adults and 2 children. A woman returning from a 3 week training in Brazil – that she held on behalf of the International Pető Institute – with her spouse and her child – traveling together with another child who had visited relatives in Brazil. According to Brazilian sources, Luis Roberto Anastáci, President of Michelin South America was also among the passengers. Two ticket holders were not allowed to get on board due to the expiration of their passports.

Update (02/June, 20.00 CET): some debris of a plane were found by rescue teams. According to new sources a seat, a life vast, an oil drum and signs of oil and kerosene were found, but there were not enough material to make sure these were parts of the lost plane. Three commercial ships were directed to the area later in the afternoon.

Update (07/June, 10.00 CET): According to CNN, two bodies and some parts of the aircraft were found yesterday. Also a backpack and a leather briefcase were found, the latter holding a flight ticket, which was identified by Air France and it was proven to belong to one of the passengers. Airbus said the automated error messages may show that the speed controls were faulty.  Read more here.

by balint01

Video About The Spanair Crash

A month ago Spanair’s flight JK 5022 crashed during take-off, killing 153 people.

As investigation goes on and tries to identify the cause of the accident, lots of families mourn their relatives and friends. This is a tragedy and I am sure that even a lifetime is not enough to deal with such a meaningless death.

Therefore I was shocked by a video that was presented by Spanish media company El Pais. It is an amateur video and it shows the crash itself. I understand that it is a unique video, but it must be a horror for those who lost their family members or friends in this terrible accident.

Here is the video, I hope I will not hurt anybody with it, because I am almost sure relatives of the victims have already seen it somewhere else.

By Szafi


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